Some well-wisher/glass-half-full types that I have expressed some slightly contra-JW opinions to have told me that I am, "Making the truth my own." If they only knew the half of it. The more I "make the truth my own," the more I doubt that a person needs to be part of any organized religion.
Franklin Massey
JoinedPosts by Franklin Massey
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55
Malawi Savage Betrayal by Watchtower?
by Marvin Shilmer inmalawi savage betrayal by watchtower?
today i uploaded a new article presenting information about why jehovahs witnesses in malawi suffered brutal persecution compared to what watchtowers top leadership was doing at the exact same time.
the article is titled malawi savage betrayal by watchtower?
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Franklin Massey
The Mexico/Malawi thing in CoC had me in tears. The double standard is absolutely disgusting. This is one of those issues that I wish every active JW could learn about as it forces one to recognize that the GB is not all it claims to be. I still hear, in private conversation and in public talks, mention of the faithful brothers and sisters in Malawi. It is so incredibly sad.
Around here, there is an experience that comes up on occasion of a little boy, a toddler, who was learning to say his own prayers before bed. His parents would listen in and were perplexed as to why the boy was asking Jehovah to bless "Wally." After a while, they realized he was praying for "Malawi."
Every time I hear that story I get filled with emotion and I have to control myself from screaming out, "DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THE REAL STORY OF MALAWI!?!"
The most accurate accounts of this come from obvious "apostate" websites and books. Any ideas on how I could get an active JW to read/discover it? I feel like it would be a game changer. Or, am I wrong? Am I making too much of it? I am worried that in my current situation with the WTS, my objectivity may be a bit off.
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Hello to everyone.... and could I ask a really basic question here please...
by JamesS ini'm james i'm new to this forum as of today and i'm a ex-jw who was "born into the truth" and then left it officially at the age of twenty after "drifting out" of it for some time.
i'm now 34 and whilst i'm not exactly happy with the world i'm living in, i'm largely happy with my own life.. one question i've got about this forum - i didn't join for a long time because i thought it was for active jw's (based on the web-site url), not ex jw's, but then looking at the threads, it seems it is more for ex-jw's!
what is the demographic for the membership?
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Franklin Massey
Welcome James.
I'm an active elder. I'm in for family and friends.
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Answer Up
by Franklin Massey inwe don't have this expression in the us.
"i always 'answer up' at every meeting.
" i love it!
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Franklin Massey
We don't have this expression in the US. "I always 'answer up' at every meeting." I love it! So, thanks to all who use it.
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65
So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
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Franklin Massey
Lunatic, I posted this earlier in this thread:
The last talk that we had on evolution the speaker said, "These evolutionists claaaaaim that they can even tell how we developed thoughts and feelings. How silly that notion is! We know that we have the feelings of our Creator who made us in his image. Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"
I wanted to jump out the window. (Yes, our hall has windows!) The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil. He might as well have fired up the pipe organ, grabbed a few snakes, and finished the rest of his talk in a spirit-induced indecipherable tongue.
I bet it was the same outline that you mentioned.
Your account brings up a good point: Why is it wrong to ask a public speaker about their sources and info? What if a speaker was using outdated/inaccurate material or citing a teaching that JWs no longer use? Shouldn't the speaker be notified so that a correction could be made, preventing future talks from being innaccurate? I would appreciate having such knowledge. If you have ever been to a public lecture or a book reading, there is always some time after the session to discuss things with the speaker/author. But in JW congregations, all we get is a receiving line for handshakes and praise, whether the speaker or discussion was good or not.
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So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
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Franklin Massey
Yesterday, I had a conversation about the subject of evolution with one of the few JWs I can speak openly (kind of) with. I said, "The facts and evidence for evolution continue to pile up in so many different areas of the sciences. We are at a point where those who do not believe that evolution of some significant sort happened will be rightfully labeled as 'ignorant fools.' I'm not going to sit around and wait for the Watchtower to catch up on this subject."
The reply was, "Does this mean you don't believe God was the Creator? Where is Jehovah in all of this?"
I said, without expressing my personal feelings, "Acknowledging that evolution has happened, and is happening now, doesn't mean that you don't believe in God. If anything, examining the facts and embracing the evidence only serves to provide a more accurate picture of who God is and what God has done. Now, one might have to go back to their understanding of the Genesis account and do some reconciling. But if you read the WT interpretation of Genesis, this has already been done in reaction to overwhelming evidence."
"What do you mean?"
"JWs don't believe that the earth was created in six literal days. However, if you read Genesis literally, it says that God did it all in six days. If you believe that God can do anything, then God could have done it all in six days. But when the evidence is examined, it is apparent that the forces that shaped earth and everything on it have been in motion for billions of years. To hold on to the idea of six literal days is foolish in light of all the available evidence. It is the same with evolution. The facts force us to go back and look at the account again. We only stand to get a clearer picture of how it all really happened."
They were cool with that.
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The Evolution of God
by Spade inhttp://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/evolution-of-god.html.
in the evolution of god, robert wright takes us on a sweeping journey through history, unveiling a discovery of crucial importance to the present moment: there is a pattern in the evolution of judaism, christianity, and islam, and a hidden code in their scriptures.
straddling popular science, ancient history, and theology, this ambitious work sets out to resolve not only the clash of civilizations between the judeo-christian west and the muslim world but also the clash between science and religion.
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Franklin Massey
I don't get the point of this post. Have you read The Evolution of God? Or are you just using it's mere existence and summary of content as a conversation starter? I have read the book and it provides some compelling evidence-based answers to the very questions posed in your post.
Logically, questions come to mind. From where did all these religions come? Since there are marked differences as well as similarities among them, did they start independently, or could they have developed from one source? In fact we might ask: Why did religion begin at all? And how? The answers to these questions are of vital importance to all who are interested in finding the truth about religion and religious beliefs.
I agree with that last sentence. It reminds me of the opening to Mankind's Search for God, published by JWs (which I noticed the blogger credited in the original post). Funny thing is, that book was a HUGE part of getting me on the road to find out the truth about the "Truth." I read it and found its cursory examination of other religions to be inadequate. I set out to get further clarity on the religions mentioned in the book. Bottom line, that book didn't effectively answer it's own questions. It didn't hold JWs up to the same criteria that it used to deem other religions unfit. Unfair play. In my extensive research, I've found overwhelming evidence against the JW idea of where all religions came from. The JW view is rather naive and pretends to be ignorant of much of the available evidence. Or maybe they aren't pretending. Cherrypicking, prehaps?
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Here i am....
by makersmark inhere i am - born in truth, hard-core spiritual everything all my life, early reg.pioneer, ms, elder, assembly parts, tour at bethel, etc, married now...... i'm trying to examine jw teachings a little closer...... i've spent the last two weeks reading many many posts, info , references on where ex-jw's are coming from.
i'm kind of concerned about a few things lately..... honestly - some points make sense to me - some don't - here are my general thoughts:.
-wt getting un membership for access to library - doesnt bother me - some passports and other governement documents have similar forms and requirements..... -blood issue - some counterpoints to the jw 'rules' makes sense (original intent of scripture is unbled animals, white blood cells similar in mothers milk) etc -however a lot of 'apostate' reasonings and proof are inaccurate.
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Franklin Massey
Welcome Maker's Mark. I'm serving as an elder now and have asked, or are currently asking, many of the questions you listed in your post.
I had to ask myself is, where does the body of evidence for any given claim rest? If I placed both sides of any given argument on a scale, which way would it tip?
For me, the deeper my research goes, the more evidence I find contrary to some of my dearly held JW beliefs. The more arguments I hear from "the other side," a side that is grossly unrepresented in JW teaching, the more often the scale tips away from the Watchtower Society. We have a serious problem with information control in the Organization, and rightly so. If we freely discussed all possibililties relating to any given teaching, said teaching is at risk of becoming less convincing. The more plausible options there are for understanding a metaphsyical concept, the further we get away from "absolute truth."
There are some things that JWs have right. But on these subjects, JWs are not the sole posessors of these ideas. We're not as special as we like to think we are.
The key doctrines that make JWs unique from the rest of the Christian denominations pose another tricky problem when scrutinized. If I move aside those that are shaky, unconvincing, logically twisted, or outright false....I'm left with the sinking feeling that at it's core, JW theology is not that different from the other Christian denominations that are, according to JWs, going to be the objects of Jesus and Jehovah's vengeful fury.
You were right when you said that you have a lot of thinking a research to do. I wish you the best in your search.
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So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
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Franklin Massey
Greatest Show on Earth was a great read!
The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.
That's pretty edgy for a public talk. Good for him. The last talk that we had on evolution the speaker said, "These evolutionists claaaaaim that they can even tell how we developed thoughts and feelings. How silly that notion is! We know that we have the feelings of our Creator who made us in his image. Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"
I wanted to jump out the window. (Yes, our hall has windows!) The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil. He might as well have fired up the pipe organ, grabbed a few snakes, and finished the rest of his talk in a spirit-induced indecipherable tongue.
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65
So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
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Franklin Massey
Totally. I was the odd one out and his tone was meant to put me in my place. AWKWARD! I was tempted to get personal and say, "Oh, so when did Jehovah tell you that it was alright to get drunk off your *** all the time?" But alas, I, in true gentleman form, refrained.
What bothers me is that they can't even handle the tip of the iceberg. I try to dial my opinions waaaay back and just drop the occasional, factual tidbit in to balance out the conversation. Sometimes it works, but lately, I just set off alarms.